Check it out...

[alexpgp]

If you don't mind having your spirits lifted, go read Congratulations Mr. Beniste.

Cheers...

Comments

DOESN'T work for me!

[veryty.livejournal.com]

...My wife and I had witnessed a profoundly important economic event. We had seen a worker transformed into an entrepreneur. The system was working its magic right before our eyes...

Excuse me, but during his 14 years in the USA getting to the point where he would be approved for that bank loan, were Mr. Beniste's "two kids" with him in NYC, or back in Haiti? Was all this good for their growing up?

Sorry, Alex, but this story is not uplifting to me. The proportions are all wrong.

Who's pocketing that enormous sum (TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS! - how long does a Haitian take to earn that back in Haiti, anyway?) for the taxi medallion? How is that figure set? How much is the bank going to be taking in interest for the next, what was it, twenty years?

This man is working 12 hour days for 14 years until now plus 20 years from now, not counting the work of that other driver on the night shift. Sounds like servitude to me! Oh, voluntary, for sure. Good thing that medallion doesn't cost more, as well it might!

It's a system, all right. I'd call it a racket. There are racketeers here, and profiteers. Oh, and let's include the man glowingly telling the story and the one writing it and the one posting it in LJ as uplifting.

You like this? You think entire societies can be based on it? Or only for the ones who beat their way to the top (or at least, scramble just high enough to get approved by the bank for a loan), and devil take the hindmost rest?

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[avva.livejournal.com]

Excuse me, but during his 14 years in the USA getting to the point where he would be approved for that bank loan, were Mr. Beniste's "two kids" with him in NYC, or back in Haiti? Was all this good for their growing up?

Why wouldn't it be? Would it be better for them if he lived on welfare 14 years?

Who's pocketing that enormous sum (TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS! - how long does a Haitian take to earn that back in Haiti, anyway?)

But he didn't earn that back in Haiti. He earned that in the US. So now it's wrong for him to make more money in the US than he would have back in Haiti?

for the taxi medallion?

Another taxi driver, of course. Who is now going to retire on that money after many years spent behind the wheel. And what's wrong with that?

Not to mention that Mr. Beniste now owns a taxi medallion currently worth $250,000, which is a very good investment.

How is that figure set?

By the market.

How much is the bank going to be taking in interest for the next, what was it, twenty years?

A lot; and the point is what exactly? Bank loans are immoral now?

This man is working 12 hour days for 14 years until now plus 20 years from now, not counting the work of that other driver on the night shift. Sounds like servitude to me!

Sounds like determined hard work to me. He seems to enjoy it, too.

Oh, voluntary, for sure. Good thing that medallion doesn't cost more, as well it might!

Ah, if only everything in life was free and we didn't have to work at all.

You like this?

I like this a lot. I'm proud for this man and I think the story if very morally uplifting.

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[veryty.livejournal.com]

Gee, with all the immigrants plus legal (let's not mention the illegal) foreign workers in Israel, I bet we don't have to look far nor wait long for lots more uplifting stories. Oops, I just remembered: Israel doesn't have a lavish market economy to reward all those hardworking folks. And just how did all that capital get accumulated in the first place to get passed around to the deserving people anyway?

Have you considered the possibility that hardworking Haitians might build up their own country? You see America as the land of opportunity; I see it as a big exploitation-fest where only the fit need apply.

Do you have any answers for the disadvantaged, avva? Or in true free-market spirit, do you just consign them to a miserable life and early grave, while you cheer the winners?

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[alexpgp.livejournal.com]

> Have you considered the possibility that hardworking Haitians might build up their own country?

Nobody whose motivation does not include a lot of ideology gives the proverbial fig about building up their own country. Most folks want to live a comfortable life that doesn't involve worrying about food, shelter, and having nasty people with guns interrupt their sleep.

Haitians, like most folks, want to live that comfortable life, but it's a mite hard considering the political situation in their country, which is why a number of them leave.

The same is true of many Mexicans, who decide it's easier to come to the U.S. and earn money here than to try to scrabble out some kind of living in a society where mordida is the order of the day when dealing with officialdom.

I don't know if avva has any answers for the disadvantaged, but I can say this: miserable lives and early graves are not something one typically finds in countries that embrace free markets and individual freedom.

Cheers...

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[alexpgp.livejournal.com]

Excuse me, but during his 14 years in the USA getting to the point where he would be approved for that bank loan, were Mr. Beniste's "two kids" with him in NYC, or back in Haiti? Was all this good for their growing up?

You are assuming a fact not in evidence. Nonetheless, having a breadwinner travel far distances to support a family back home has a long tradition among many peoples.

Who's pocketing that enormous sum (TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS! - how long does a Haitian take to earn that back in Haiti, anyway?) for the taxi medallion? How is that figure set? How much is the bank going to be taking in interest for the next, what was it, twenty years?

The person pocketing that sum is the person who once bought it for - almost certainly - a smaller price. During my brief, undistinguished career as a New York City cabbie (ca. 1974), I learned that a medallion cost around $65,000. If Mr. Beniste holds on to the medallion for 5-7 years, I suspect it may become worth around $250K. The figure is set by supply (fixed, by the city) and demand.

Given the capitalization rate for the taxi industry (10-15%), the average time to recover the cost of a medallion is probably 7-10 years. If Mr. Beniste is half the entrepreneur I think he is, he'll have the loan paid off sooner.

How much interest will he pay? I don't know, but I would venture to say it'll be less than what he'd pay for a home mortgage of the same size, since the term is probably 10 or 15 years.

(BTW, your parenthetical question is phrased incorrectly. It should read: "How many generations of a Haitian family does it take to earn $220,000 in Haiti?" The government down there has a long and distinguished tradition of looting the country in the Euopean tradition.)

This man is working 12 hour days for 14 years until now plus 20 years from now, not counting the work of that other driver on the night shift. Sounds like servitude to me! Oh, voluntary, for sure. Good thing that medallion doesn't cost more, as well it might!

When you work as a hack driver, you keep 40-50% of the fares you collect during the day. The rest goes to the owner of the cab, who gets to pay for the gas, maintenance, insurance, taxes, etc. associated with the business. Assuming Mr. Beniste keeps working the way he has, and since he'll now be collecting the owner's share for himself and the other driver, the time it will take to pay off the mediallion (at which point he will be sitting on $250,000 worth of equity, if the past is any indicator) should be about half of that 14 years (it would be a third, but there are those expenses to consider).

At that point, of course, he'll have a hell of a lot of options available, certainly more than another cabbie who might be content to drive a hack for 20 years. He might buy another mediallion or two and run a mini-fleet. He might stay with one car and hire a second driver to work his hours, thereby turn his investment into a positive cash flow without his having to do much work at all (the reward of voluntary servitude). Or he might sell his business (including his $250K medallion) to someone, retire (after 20 years of hard work, while the rest of us are still living paycheck-to-paycheck), and take the money back to Haiti with him, if he so chooses.

[...]I'd call it a racket. There are racketeers here, and profiteers. Oh, and let's include the man glowingly telling the story and the one writing it and the one posting it in LJ as uplifting.

You like this? You think entire societies can be based on it? Or only for the ones who beat their way to the top (or at least, scramble just high enough to get approved by the bank for a loan), and devil take the hindmost rest?

Do I like the fact that someone who starts out with nothing works hard, saves, and invests in a business is well on his way toward achieving a goal that will allow him and his family to live comfortably without having to break his back or send his kids into the cane fields? Um, yes.

It's something, in fact, that I pursue.

If you think this is all so wrong, tell me, whom did Mr. Beniste trample underfoot by working hard, saving his money, and buying a business? Whom will he be screwing by offering them a job?

Cheers...

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[egofood.livejournal.com]

were Mr. Beniste's "two kids" with him in NYC, or back in Haiti?
he would hire another guy to drive the other twelve hours so that even while he was home with his family While that doesn't prove his family was in NYC for all 14 years, I think that it's a reasonable assumption they have been here at least most of that time.

Was all this good for their growing up? Having a hard-working father around who saved $300/month and then invested those savings to then hire his own employee (and who knows how many more he will hire later on) seems to be extremely good for their growing up. Would you prefer he instead live on unemployment so he could spend more time with his kids setting them an "alternative" example?

$220K is a lot of money. It was set by the market, and the main reason the medallions are that valuable is the limited supply. Your government at work. But still the holders of those medallions are able to recoup their investments. Every business starts and lives on loans and lines of credit. You don't get paid until the good is delivered or the service is rendered. As for who is pocketing the money, the previous owner of the medalion, who also put a substantial sum of his savings into it. And the bank (and its depositors--such as Mr. Beniste--whose savings made the money for the loan possible in the first place) will also make some money. The government will get a portion of all of this money as well from taxes, much of which will then be delivered to people who don't save part of any paychecks they may be getting. When the time comes for Mr. Beniste to retire then the savings and earnings he put into this medallion will go back into his pocket. The money did not simply disappear. It was exchanged for an asset that at a later date can be exchanged back into money. That's how the system has worked ever since the invention of currency thousands of years ago in Asia Minor.

how long does a Haitian take to earn that back in Haiti, anyway? The broken markets of Haiti are their problem. In NYC it seems to take 14 years at least from Mr. Beniste's example. Why can it be done in NYC and not in Port-au-Prince? The rule of law, particualarly with respect to private property. God Bless America and Rudy Giuliani.

Good thing that medallion doesn't cost more, as well it might! Actually Mr. Beniste is counting on that medallion to cost more in the future. That's the whole point of investing.

Your real problem seems to be with the notion of profits, free markets, and accumulation of capital. What a sad life you must lead with that outlook. Mr. Beniste did not "beat" his way to the top. He saved. Anyone can do it. Just be willing to live a little bit within your means. 3 simple rules: Stay in school and get a diploma. Don't have kids out of wedlock. Get a(ny) job and keep it. And save some of that paycheck. "Impossible!" you cry? Hardly. $50,000 in 14 years is about $50/week put into savings (including earnings over time on those savings). Even $20/week is $1000/year if you just stuff it in a mattress. With compounded interest it's much more over 14 years.
But $50 a week! OMG how can anyone do that? Don't smoke or use other expensive recreational drugs. Don't blow $5 or $10 a week on lottery tickets. Don't eat out every night. Buy the $40 Reeboks instead of the $200 Nikes. Pay your bills on time (since you are living within your means) and don't carry a credit card balance past the grace period. And when you have a nice pool of capital built up, leverage it into a better rate of return. Spend the money to get a college degree. Or get a loan to buy a medallion and a new cab.

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[bandicoot.livejournal.com]

The medallion is still a risky investment. The big danger is that the government might well change the rules in the middle of the game. For example, they might double the number available, which would bring down the resale value. Or they might eliminate them entirely, although that's hardly likely.

Maybe "anyone" can do it, but not "every"one

[veryty.livejournal.com]

Your description of how "anyone" can save, achieve and succeed is very encouraging -- however, plain logic tells me that the market would not allow all the strivers to succeed. The stakes would simply get set higher and higher, squeezing out some who'd remain, striving or not, closer to or at the bottom. Profit is like some big pyramid scheme: doesn't it depend on a wide base at the bottom for people paying in so others higher up (who have attained their position through, what, hard work or privilege?) may skim it off?

You are wrong if you include me in "our" country (unless that's just a figure of speech). It was mine (and my forebears for generations) but not any more. I left.

I chose to live in what I consider a more fair system, one that implements socioeconomic policies aimed at ensuring the welfare of all its inhabitants according to some basic human rights. Kibbutz, in case you're unfamiliar with it, is a sort of village-based communism with direct-plus-representative democracy to set policy.

It doesn't work well; in some cases it's collapsed -- primarily because a significant percentage (though not a majority, but they leveraged deals to achieve a takeover) of the wage-earners chose to stop supporting the less-productive needy (including the elderly and children) so they could pocket their earnings (call it tax relief) and enhance their own standard of living which they equate with a better quality of life.

I'm sorry for our failures but they don't negate the values for which the system stood. I hope there will always be places where workers and communities find a way to adjust and implement values for the common good.

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[egofood.livejournal.com]

All investments have risks, and indeed that is an apparent one. Until you realize that it is NYC, a liberal mecca, currently under the rule of Nanny Bloomberg. The city might make more medallions available, but that would mean more cabs on the crowded streets. The real risk is that the city would try to cash in some of those medallions--at the license fee value instead of the fair market value.

Re: DOESN'T work for me!

[bandicoot.livejournal.com]

Yeah - gotta love that Bloomberg ;)

Re: Maybe "anyone" can do it, but not "every"one

[egofood.livejournal.com]

First off, my apologies about "our" government. Yes, I meant that "our" as Americans referring mainly to myself, alexpgp, and the author and subject of the story.

"Plain logic" sees profit as a pyramid-scheme only if you accept that there's a fixed-size pie. In fact, increased profits mostly result from increased economic activity which creates a larger pie. Granted, in a healthy economy the gap between those that help increase the economy and those who don't will increase. But 2 > 0 is not inherently more unfair than 1 > 0.

Rant on socialism and capitalism would fill a book. I'll just point out that charitable giving rises in a growing economy, and tends to fall with increased government involvement as people wonder why they should contribute to charities if they are already paying taxes to care for the poor, the sick, the elderly. Also just about every economic system agrees "People are self-interested, greedy if you will" but only capitalism said "Let's make greed work" by pairing it off in free markets. The other systems, such as socialism and communism, said "People are the problem, they must be changed" which is why the 20th century saw so many millions slaughtered by their own totalitarian governments.

Other solutions for other people

[veryty.livejournal.com]

I happen to know of other applications of socialism and communism that are not the State, totalitarian varieties. I left the USA to go live in a system like that; it's called a kibbutz and mainly exists in Israel. I don't claim that it's perfect; far from it. But neither is it brutal.

Since my last commments, I've given a lot of thought to this story of the immigrant pursuing the American dream. I can see how this is tremendously appealing to those who believe that this is a superior, even ideal solution for those individuals who choose to devote themselves to it.

The fundamental act requires, of course, that they leave their country of origin. And this is where we part company. The perspective that interests (and concerns) me, is based in consideration of the situation and circumstances of remaining in one's native land.

From that perspective, emigration is mainly a brain- and/or talent drain. My focus is on options for those living outside the USA, particularly in underdeveloped countries. It seems vitally significant and important to me to seek and effect changes by enlisting ways and means to improve the situation personally and on a broader scale (e.g. community, locality).

I think I see the point of your position, and thank you and alexpgp for expressing them here. Having been exposed to them helps me more clearly see that I really have an awful lot to do, and that my place is elsewhere.